Wednesday, May 17, 2006
Immigration Reform
Ugh…did you watch that speech by the president the other day? What a git! Really, he said a lot of stuff, but really isn’t helping himself out any. Apparently reactions to his speech are mixed, by both sides. The conservatives think its not enough, the liberals think its too much. Its on the White House website if you want to watch.
Here’s my thoughts on it….
He said he’s not going to offer “amnesty”, however, he did say that any illegals who have been here several years and put down roots, will simply have to pay a fine (of unknown amount) and then submit application for citizenship. If that’s not amnesty, what the heck is it?
As an immigrant to the US who had to jump through a number of hoops to get here legally, I take offence to this “fast tracking” that he’s allowing (or rather plans to allow) currently illegal immigrants to take. How is this fair? Why the hell did James and I go through all that crap, when I could have just come for a vacation and stayed?
We first saw an immigration lawyer in March of 2003. For some odd reason, she didn’t do anything with our forms and information at all for several months, and any attempt to reach her went unanswered. We gave up on her and James found another lawyer. Who unfortunately for us was also incompetent, promising the moon, and really he didn’t know anything at all about immigration law. He mis-filed the forms, and we gave up on him, after our forms were lost in the ether somewhere. He continued to send invoices though, even after we fired him.
Finally in January of 2004 we gave up trying to locate our lost forms, and I did them myself and sent them in. At the time, the processing timelines for K3 (spousal) non-immigrant visas was at about 3 months. Then once again, something happened to slow the process, and our petition got lost, and nothing was done with it until June. We even had to call the NC senators for assistance. The democrat senator never returned calls, which was kind of stupid on his part, considering he was running for Vice President, and he was on the immigration committee! The republican senator’s office was more than helpful, and was able to locate our petition, which was then put back into the line where it should have been.
After well over a year of paperwork, I got my visa in September of 2004, and was able to move in with my darling husband in October, very near our 3rd wedding anniversary.
Then came the application for Adjustment of Status (green card) which took another year and a bit to get, after more mess ups with immigration losing our forms, and once again involving Senator Elizabeth Dole’s office.
The cost of all of this was quite a lot. There’s the processing fees for the petitions I-130, and I-129F, the visa itself, plus the medical exam, plus travel and overnight stay in Montreal for the consular interview. Not to mention the several hundreds of dollars spent on incompetent lawyers (I’d advise anyone immigrating due to marriage to forego the lawyer and just do it yourself), then application forms for employment authorization, and adjustment of status, and yadda yadda yadda.
Will the “fine” that current illegals have to pay in order to be eligible to apply for naturalization equal what my husband and I have paid for our immigration ordeal? Will the pain and suffering of this “not amnesty” be equal to what we, and several thousands of other couples every year, have to deal with in order to be together legally?
Should we have just by-passed the system and waited for the “non-amnesty” that we knew was coming? Or, as several people are wondering, will this “non-amnesty” be equal along race lines, or is it only available to Central & South Americans? Who, according to the President himself, are doing jobs that Americans just won’t do! I really do wonder at his speech writers!
I honestly do not know what to think of this administration anymore. What the heck is he trying to do exactly? He says he doesn’t want to encourage further illegal immigration, and yet in the next breath he offers “not amnesty”. WTF!?
Ugh…
Well, anyway. Check out this link to find out if you would pass the citizenship test. I passed with 7 out of 10 correct. Not that I plan to apply for citizenship, but its interesting to see who can pass this and who can’t. On a marriage based immigration forum that I frequent (where this was posted) even some born and bred Americans didn’t pass.
One of the main reasons I do not plan to apply for naturalization to the US is the oath
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
I will not at any time renounce my Canadian citizenship. And as of now, that particular part of the oath is not enforced. There are thousands and thousands of US citizens who also have citizenship to their home country. I can’t even choke it out, so I won’t say it. If I can’t say it, then I can’t be a US citizen. I honestly don’t trust that it will not always be not enforced (if that makes sense). If at some time in the future the US decides that any dual citizens in the US MUST formally renounce their homeland, then I won’t do it. I will move back to Canada and renounce the US.
If an American citizen were to apply for citizenship in another country, must s/he give up the U.S. citizenship? If not, what are the conditions? What about dual citizenship?
If one takes up citizenship in another country, then the U.S. will consider that person to no longer be a citizen. Incidentally, the same is not necessarily true the other way around. If a person of another country becomes a U.S. citizen then, depending upon the laws of the home country, that country may still consider her/him to be a citizen. There are situations where the U.S. may recognize dual citizenship. For example, a person may have acquired U.S. citizenship through a parent and still be a citizen of another country. The dual citizenship situations generally pertain to citizenship-by-birth, not when the U.S. citizen naturalizes in another country.
from here
(it is worth noting however, that there is a formal procedure in order to officially renounce US citizenship, but be careful if you are an American living elsewhere with dual nationality!)
The oath of citizenship in Canada is:
swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen
In 1998 there was a proposed change to the oath and it was tabled in 2002:
From this day forward, I pledge my loyalty and allegiance to Canada and Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada. I promise to respect our country's rights and freedoms, to defend our democratic values, to faithfully observe our laws and fulfill my duties and obligations as a Canadian citizen.
I don’t know if the change was made, I can’t find anything more of it on the CIC website.
The official Canadian stance on dual nationality is that they know that people will have at least a minimal allegiance to their country of birth, so they do not require renunciation of your home country.
I guess my point is, how is the US so arrogant as to believe (by law) that they are “the” country to be a citizen of, by making new citizens renounce their homeland, and by considering their own citizens no longer citizens if they move abroad and have dual citizenships? Seriously! I do find it arrogant and unless the oath changes, I won’t raise my right hand to say it, even if the fingers of my left hand are crossed and behind my back!
To some this may sound as if I’m being nationalistic toward Canada. I guess it could sound that way, but I was born there, raised there, and lived there for 37 years. Its as much a part of me as I am of it. To be expected to just give that up, to renounce my Canadian-ness is arrogant. And if we had been able to go the other way, and have James to move to Canada, I would not have expected him to take the oath of Canadian citizenship if it meant there was even the slimmest chance he’d lose his American citizenship and he didn’t want to, or if there was something in the oath he found just as vile. Like perhaps the allegiance to the Queen. I can understand how that would turn off a new citizen of Canada. A purely outdated position, why the heck do we need monarchy anyway? Why do we need to profess allegiance to her? *shrug* (I’ll probably have MI5 and ICE knocking on my door tomorrow for such inflammatory comments toward the US and UK! ;-) )
The cons of applying for citizenship outweigh the pros at the moment. Sure, I would be able to vote, and do jury duty (honestly some people say that’s a pro!). But I would also have to file tax returns to the IRS in perpetuity, even if I leave the country for good and have no US income. I’d be able to come and go as I please, rather than having to worry about being out of the country too long and perhaps losing my green card. Like if we decide to move to the UK for a few years, I’d have to re-apply for permanent residency to the US if we moved back here.
But I just can’t choke out that oath. So, as long as they will keep renewing my green card, and there is no requirement to apply for naturalization after X number of years, I’ll just remain a legal permanent resident. Unless they change the oath. And the current stance on “not amnesty”. :-p ¶ 12:33 PM
Here’s my thoughts on it….
He said he’s not going to offer “amnesty”, however, he did say that any illegals who have been here several years and put down roots, will simply have to pay a fine (of unknown amount) and then submit application for citizenship. If that’s not amnesty, what the heck is it?
As an immigrant to the US who had to jump through a number of hoops to get here legally, I take offence to this “fast tracking” that he’s allowing (or rather plans to allow) currently illegal immigrants to take. How is this fair? Why the hell did James and I go through all that crap, when I could have just come for a vacation and stayed?
We first saw an immigration lawyer in March of 2003. For some odd reason, she didn’t do anything with our forms and information at all for several months, and any attempt to reach her went unanswered. We gave up on her and James found another lawyer. Who unfortunately for us was also incompetent, promising the moon, and really he didn’t know anything at all about immigration law. He mis-filed the forms, and we gave up on him, after our forms were lost in the ether somewhere. He continued to send invoices though, even after we fired him.
Finally in January of 2004 we gave up trying to locate our lost forms, and I did them myself and sent them in. At the time, the processing timelines for K3 (spousal) non-immigrant visas was at about 3 months. Then once again, something happened to slow the process, and our petition got lost, and nothing was done with it until June. We even had to call the NC senators for assistance. The democrat senator never returned calls, which was kind of stupid on his part, considering he was running for Vice President, and he was on the immigration committee! The republican senator’s office was more than helpful, and was able to locate our petition, which was then put back into the line where it should have been.
After well over a year of paperwork, I got my visa in September of 2004, and was able to move in with my darling husband in October, very near our 3rd wedding anniversary.
Then came the application for Adjustment of Status (green card) which took another year and a bit to get, after more mess ups with immigration losing our forms, and once again involving Senator Elizabeth Dole’s office.
The cost of all of this was quite a lot. There’s the processing fees for the petitions I-130, and I-129F, the visa itself, plus the medical exam, plus travel and overnight stay in Montreal for the consular interview. Not to mention the several hundreds of dollars spent on incompetent lawyers (I’d advise anyone immigrating due to marriage to forego the lawyer and just do it yourself), then application forms for employment authorization, and adjustment of status, and yadda yadda yadda.
Will the “fine” that current illegals have to pay in order to be eligible to apply for naturalization equal what my husband and I have paid for our immigration ordeal? Will the pain and suffering of this “not amnesty” be equal to what we, and several thousands of other couples every year, have to deal with in order to be together legally?
Should we have just by-passed the system and waited for the “non-amnesty” that we knew was coming? Or, as several people are wondering, will this “non-amnesty” be equal along race lines, or is it only available to Central & South Americans? Who, according to the President himself, are doing jobs that Americans just won’t do! I really do wonder at his speech writers!
I honestly do not know what to think of this administration anymore. What the heck is he trying to do exactly? He says he doesn’t want to encourage further illegal immigration, and yet in the next breath he offers “not amnesty”. WTF!?
Ugh…
Well, anyway. Check out this link to find out if you would pass the citizenship test. I passed with 7 out of 10 correct. Not that I plan to apply for citizenship, but its interesting to see who can pass this and who can’t. On a marriage based immigration forum that I frequent (where this was posted) even some born and bred Americans didn’t pass.
One of the main reasons I do not plan to apply for naturalization to the US is the oath
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
I will not at any time renounce my Canadian citizenship. And as of now, that particular part of the oath is not enforced. There are thousands and thousands of US citizens who also have citizenship to their home country. I can’t even choke it out, so I won’t say it. If I can’t say it, then I can’t be a US citizen. I honestly don’t trust that it will not always be not enforced (if that makes sense). If at some time in the future the US decides that any dual citizens in the US MUST formally renounce their homeland, then I won’t do it. I will move back to Canada and renounce the US.
If an American citizen were to apply for citizenship in another country, must s/he give up the U.S. citizenship? If not, what are the conditions? What about dual citizenship?
If one takes up citizenship in another country, then the U.S. will consider that person to no longer be a citizen. Incidentally, the same is not necessarily true the other way around. If a person of another country becomes a U.S. citizen then, depending upon the laws of the home country, that country may still consider her/him to be a citizen. There are situations where the U.S. may recognize dual citizenship. For example, a person may have acquired U.S. citizenship through a parent and still be a citizen of another country. The dual citizenship situations generally pertain to citizenship-by-birth, not when the U.S. citizen naturalizes in another country.
from here
(it is worth noting however, that there is a formal procedure in order to officially renounce US citizenship, but be careful if you are an American living elsewhere with dual nationality!)
The oath of citizenship in Canada is:
swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen
In 1998 there was a proposed change to the oath and it was tabled in 2002:
From this day forward, I pledge my loyalty and allegiance to Canada and Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada. I promise to respect our country's rights and freedoms, to defend our democratic values, to faithfully observe our laws and fulfill my duties and obligations as a Canadian citizen.
I don’t know if the change was made, I can’t find anything more of it on the CIC website.
The official Canadian stance on dual nationality is that they know that people will have at least a minimal allegiance to their country of birth, so they do not require renunciation of your home country.
I guess my point is, how is the US so arrogant as to believe (by law) that they are “the” country to be a citizen of, by making new citizens renounce their homeland, and by considering their own citizens no longer citizens if they move abroad and have dual citizenships? Seriously! I do find it arrogant and unless the oath changes, I won’t raise my right hand to say it, even if the fingers of my left hand are crossed and behind my back!
To some this may sound as if I’m being nationalistic toward Canada. I guess it could sound that way, but I was born there, raised there, and lived there for 37 years. Its as much a part of me as I am of it. To be expected to just give that up, to renounce my Canadian-ness is arrogant. And if we had been able to go the other way, and have James to move to Canada, I would not have expected him to take the oath of Canadian citizenship if it meant there was even the slimmest chance he’d lose his American citizenship and he didn’t want to, or if there was something in the oath he found just as vile. Like perhaps the allegiance to the Queen. I can understand how that would turn off a new citizen of Canada. A purely outdated position, why the heck do we need monarchy anyway? Why do we need to profess allegiance to her? *shrug* (I’ll probably have MI5 and ICE knocking on my door tomorrow for such inflammatory comments toward the US and UK! ;-) )
The cons of applying for citizenship outweigh the pros at the moment. Sure, I would be able to vote, and do jury duty (honestly some people say that’s a pro!). But I would also have to file tax returns to the IRS in perpetuity, even if I leave the country for good and have no US income. I’d be able to come and go as I please, rather than having to worry about being out of the country too long and perhaps losing my green card. Like if we decide to move to the UK for a few years, I’d have to re-apply for permanent residency to the US if we moved back here.
But I just can’t choke out that oath. So, as long as they will keep renewing my green card, and there is no requirement to apply for naturalization after X number of years, I’ll just remain a legal permanent resident. Unless they change the oath. And the current stance on “not amnesty”. :-p ¶ 12:33 PM
